March 28, 2011

Using Bad Logic

I don't see the logic of rejecting data
just because they seem incredible.
— Fred Hoyle

Edited for wording 9-06-2012

Buona sera. I have had the opportunity on several occasions to actually use what passes for logic in some atheists' minds right back at them. Since this experience is spread out over several Weblogs and over a period of time, I will give you the distilled essence.

But first, caricatures of how it feels to be on the receiving end.

Sitting at the table, counting out my medications and putting them in dispensers for the week. A pill rolls off the table onto the floor. Later, I say, "Oh, no. I'm one pill short for the week!" The atheist watching me says, "There's one on the floor. You have the exact amount. You're a liar!"

Teasing an atheist, I joke, "Does what you said really pass for rational speech on your planet?" The atheist shoots back, "Liar! I'm not from another planet, and you know it!"

Reading the weather forecast on Monday, I say, "It looks like it will be nice all week. A bit cold, but no snow, rain or sleet". Thursday rolls around, sleet turning into all rain happens. The atheist says, "You said it would be nice all week. You're stupid as well as a liar! You are a fake Christian! There is no God!"

In the first instance, someone takes advantage of a simple mistake. The second example is of someone who chooses not to recognize humor or sarcasm. Third, things happen that are not under anyone's control.

As I said, these are caricatures, but some people act that desperately to find something — anything — with which to attack a Christian. God forbid that a Christian is allowed to be right on something.

By the way, do people still use the expression, "In your face?" Some do? That's groovy, I don't want to use outdated slang.

Here is a two-in-one "in your face" example of giving atheists' logic back to them.

To begin, I made a bad joke about someone having a drunken one night stand with a prostitute and confusing it with marriage. (Hey, I said it was bad!) So, in his desperate, twisted mind, Arvel Atheist screamed, "You just called my wife a whore!" Like I knew he claimed to be married in the first place. Nice job at lameness, Poindexter. (Hey, maybe he didn't want his alleged wife to know about — never mind.) They'll grab any excuse to attack, remember.
He demanded an apology for something that I did not say. So, I used his atheist "morality" back at him, taking it down the road of its own "logic". Since he is an atheist, he has no absolute standard for morality. So, even if I was guilty of his accusation, what difference does it make? If there is no God, everyone makes their own rules. He should respect me for going by my rules of conducat while he goes by his rules. But by crying, "Foul!", he implied that there is a higher standard; he appealed to an ultimate standard. There is only one source for that: God. So, the atheist appealed to the God that he says does not exist, instead of being consistent with his own faulty "morality".

I managed to make things worse for him.

The second thing I did was to say that he was probably pretending to have a wife. After all, atheists are known for skipping marriage and simply living together. This guy, and many other atheists (especially online) are notoriously dishonest. I said he was probably being a typical atheist and lying about having a wife.

Someone who claimed to be his wife commented to me that she is his wife. I replied that she is an admitted atheist as well, and probably lying to help him out. She offered that she has proof. Well, that can be faked. And I have never seen her in the first place.

Just because someone has evidence for marriage, and the testimony of witnesses, does not mean that it's true. I do not have to believe it. Atheists are liars, anyway, and they have no moral standards.

How do you like it? Back atcha. In your face. Ha!

This is the same crap that this guy (and many other atheists I have dealt with) will shovel at you. There is no God because I can't see him. I don't believe any evidence that the Bible is true. You're a fool for believing in him, anyway. Christians are stupid and dishonest, and will say anything to get you to believe in their God (an appallingly stupid remark that I have encountered many times). OK, prove to me that God exists. Right here, right now. Probably gearing up for the atheist holiday on April 1.

Even when you catch them in their logic flaws, they deny it. So, don't waste your time with someone who is obviously resistant to what you have to say, is incapable of learning (or simply unwilling), whether it is a discussion on the existence of God or about your work habits.

I am not kidding myself that these people will learn. But my sensible readers can learn from their mistakes. 

Addendum: The geniuses came along and complained about the post (one of which has been banned for weeks). Although I did not give names, they identified themselves in the comments. Inspiring intellect! And then, the male bravely deleted his comments!

Also, a pretend Christian judged me harshly in the comments.


Anonymous said...

what the hell stormy? 1. I don't recall ever telling you I was an atheist. 2. all I asked for was that you have the common decency to leave me out of your arguing with Alex. I don't care what you say to each other, Alex is an adult and can do as he pleases. In theory so are you.

what reason would I (not alex, me) have to lie about being married to him? I've not defended Alex's opinions or methods (whether i agree with him or not) I've just said leave me out of it.

Is that really so much to ask?

Anonymous said...

You also left out the part where I asked you to apologise to me for being a bit of a jerk (you even admit it wasn't very nice in this post) and you refused to and started insulting me instead! I think you both argue like 3 year olds. It'd be nice if you could actually show some of your Christian values and say ok, i think this lady's husband is a prick, i dont like him BUT regardless of that she hasnt done anything to me other than marry someone i dislike so i'll leave her out of it, entirely.

and i'll ask you again. would you like wedding photos? a copy of my marriage licence? My UKBA spousal visa?

Alex is married. it's just a fact. I'm his wife, and i dont want anything to do with your bickering. please.

Bob Sorensen said...

Can't help it, I like kittens. But this kitten is hissing in the wrong corner. You see, I made a joke, and he brought you into it. If he had not keep hammering it, it would have been forgotten. So, I really think you're blaming the wrong guy for what Alex started and continued. So, I don't feel that I owe you an apology because of a remark that he chose to use as a tool to get at me. Do you follow this?

Read the article more closely. I am showing how atheist "logic" works, and gave it back at him. I used the "I don't believe you" thing to make a point that he is incapable of grasping, and that I think you're in too much of an angry hurry to see just yet.

The bigger point that I was making is that people can choose to disbelieve, despite the evidence.

Anonymous said...

No, I didn't miss it. I can, and do read. I am just asking you (if you want to see it as being the bigger man, fine) that i just get left out of anything to do with alex's attitude and your opinion of it/him. I'm his wife, not his mum. I ask him to leave me out of it and i'm asking you as well.

I don't have any gripe with you, i just don't like to be included in anyone's online fussing (which is why i dont pop up a lot on his blog or anyone else's)

Rhomphaia (Sword) said...

You did GREAT! -With showing the errors and the true logical conclusions of these situations...but I'm rolling in the floor at the rest of this nonsense.

Laughing until tears-- lol!

Bob Sorensen said...

I didn't say you can't read. All I ask from you is that you see that he brought you into this.

In fact, this whole article could have gone unnoticed if you two did not comment; I did not name anyone.

Bob Sorensen said...

In fact, if you give the word, you can remain anonymous; I'll delete your comments and my replies to you completely.

Jesus Will Save said...

Dear atheists,

I want you to know that the majority of Christians are not as bad as Stormbringer. His behavior has no bearing on the truth of Christianity.
Do not judge us all by his actions.

Jesus loves you.

Bob Sorensen said...

There is nothing that I like better than self-righteous, shallow, judgmental Christians. (By the way, what gives you the qualifications to know about "the majority of Christians", or even the right to speak this way?) It is people like you that helped push me away from the faith for about fifteen years. IF...

Examine yourself, to see that you are, indeed, in the faith. (2 Cor. 13.5)

But I strongly suspect that you are not really in the faith. There are many atheists pretending to be Christians out there.

Jesus Will Save said...

I need to say these things cause I love you so
And I’m sorry you get angry when I say that you
just don’t know
But there’s a heaven waiting for you and me
I know it seems every time we talk I’m only
trying to just make you see

And it’s only that I care
I really only want just to see you there

Please try and overlook my human side
I know I’m such a bad example and you know I’m so
full of pride
But jesus isn’t like that, now he’s perfect all
the way
I guess that’s why we need him, cause by
ourselves, there’s just no way

And it’s only that I care
I really, really only just want to see you there

-Keith Green.

Bob Sorensen said...

Either a phoney, or a brain-dead Jesus cheerleader. You fit what I described a few times in my other Weblog, "A Soldier for Jesus", and I bet you could learn some things from it. You won't like it, because I'm not advocating your style: Everyone get together, sing songs and have a group hug.

Did you know that Jesus wasn't always Captain Nice? Nor were Paul, John the Baptist and others. So don't put your touchie-feelie churchianity on me.

Perhaps you can examine yourself and repent of your judgmental, superior attitude? Again, types like you helped push me away from my faith, and I was away from it for about fifteen years. If I had come across you a year ago, I might not have come back to Jesus!

Anonymous said...

Wait. You didnt name names so this genius says 'leave me out of it'. Brilliant.
Where did you get the mealy mouthed religious one?

Anonymous said...

Is she cute? With 'moo' in the name I guess I ain't interested so nevermind.

Bob Sorensen said...

Nicky's in a mood today!

But you're right, I did not name anyone.

That "religious" commenter, I'm getting an idea for another article for the other site.

Bob Sorensen said...

For "Jesus Will Save": I have serious doubts that you are a Christian. Instead, I think you are an atheist pretending to be a Christian. I've seen it before.

If, perchance, you are actually a follower of Jesus, you are not following principles of Scripture. Take a look at this:

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