Showing posts sorted by relevance for query bad logic on my part. Sort by date Show all posts
Showing posts sorted by relevance for query bad logic on my part. Sort by date Show all posts

November 20, 2011

Bad Logic on My Part

There were voices in the night 
"Don't do it!"
Voices out of sight
"Don't do it!"
— Chris DeBurgh, "Don't Pay the Ferryman"

Buon giorno. I did some bad logic. Yes, I know it's astonishing. But your astonishment will evaporate when I tell you that it was on purpose.

You see, when I did an article about appearing on an atheist "show" (podcast thing), I asked the viewing public if I should engage in this activity:

The question itself is biased. Then, the first two answer choices contained loaded wording. The third selection was legitimate, and the last two were because I wanted to be funny (I was the only one to vote on "Sorry, what?"). If I worked for a pollster, I would have been sacked.

In the article, I pointed out my dealings with some of those people in this "show" included manipulation, personal attacks, ridicule, profanity and fundamentally flawed logic. They must think that I am stupid, because I am still badgered to be on the "show", even though I have repeatedly explained my reasons for refusal. Further, continued attempts at manipulation and appeal to pride ("Come on the show, prove you're not a Poe") reinforce my belief that they have no respect for my intelligence, beliefs or for me as a person. By the way, the "prove that I'm not a Poe" nonsense can easily be turned around because atheists have their own Poes. News flash, guys! Ridicule is not a form of logical discussion!

Another reason that this poll was spurious is because I never intended to participate. But then, I never claimed that I would abide by the results of the poll. Which is a good thing, because it was obviously manipulated by these guys and their pals. I received e-mails strongly imploring me not to do this thing ("Don't waste your breath nor fingers as no good can come from that situation"..."I voted for "leave it alone". As I was doing so I noticed "38 votes so far" and thought, "Hey, that's pretty good." And when the results appeared I could see that 26 of those votes are from your creepazoid stalkers. They really want you, baby! Take my advice, it'll be better for your blood pressure. I can feel mine going up just thinking about it"), and personal conversations strongly advising me to give it a miss.

Something I forgot to mention in the previous article is that I had no idea how many atheists I would be facing, and what topics. (I was told much later by the one who is actually civil that it would be one-on-one, and I could choose the topic. Aside from my trust level being zero, I have the larger concern of being unable to see much value in the whole thing, aside from making their CV look good.) I'm not Matt Slick, James White (not every show takes calls) or Greg Koukl, ready and willing to take on just about anything in a cold call. One of these atheopaths has humiliated himself on Matt's show, I'd love to hear him try his stunts with Greg or Dr. White. Tee hee.

I had some extra knowledge that I chose not to mention in the other article: The reputation of these guys who want me to call and "debate" on their "show". I told of my experiences with some of them, but what about people who have actually listened to this thing? "Tribalogue" had some interesting comments, plus a follow-up. So did "Grace in the Triad". (Unfortunately, I had to remove the links to the above material that existed when I made my decision.) Also, I asked someone who had actually endured this "show", and was told, "Don't do it". 

Edit: This arrived in my e-mail: "I am glad that you have decided against appearing on the Fundamentally Flawed podcast with host Alex Botten. After having done a bit of homework on the man and observing him at various blogs on the internet, I have come to the realization that Botten is a sickening and exceedingly wicked man. He is not merely incoherent and irrational—although he is that—but a truly wicked and disturbed man who relishes in his feculent sin."

After the poll was closed, I received an e-mail wanting to set up the debate that I had never promised to do. All these attempts at manipulation are off-putting, to say the least.

If they had started out acting respectfully and being skilful, they could possibly have built up a decent reputation by now. I wonder if they will ever change? Nah. Hate makes people act stupidly, and think irrationally. You can see Alex Botten's lack of logic, lack of civility, lack of understanding the basics of copyright law, lack of willingness to follow the Terms of Service of Wordpress, lack of respect for the rights and sensibilities of others here.

"What's your point, Cowboy Bob?"

I'm glad you asked. There were three. First, I vented a bit. Second, to give other potential callers some information on which to base their decisions to participate. Third, and most important, to discuss how my previous write-up was skewed with loaded terminology; it is an example of the kind of thing that should be approached with caution when it is presented as "objective".
Alex Botten, Jim Gardner, Fundamentally Flawed

May 22, 2010

Why I Cannot Trust Atheists Part 1

Buon giorno. Let me start with an excuse. It's only been about six weeks since I have actively come back to my Christian faith, and I am still lacking in the "Christian love" department.

But I do know about truth. And I'm not in the mood to coddle anybody, so put on your "I'm all gwowed up" pants and brace yourselves.

I have learned quite a bit over the past few weeks about the modern breed of atheists. My regular readers know that I've been around for quite a while. During those years, I've encountered atheists. One guy in 1974 (I was 14) was railing in school that "all Christians should be burned at the stake!" I never did find out what brought that on. Other than him, most of the atheists have been civil, "live and let live" types who may or may not want to discuss their beliefs. For that matter, some people call themselves atheists simply because they haven't given serious thought about God and the truth of Jesus.

Now we have the "new atheists". Saying that they are "aggressive" is an understatement. You'll notice that the "comments" section of my Weblogs has been shut down because of cowardly Internet atheist trolls.

(Sigh) I suppose I have to do this every time: I am speaking in generalities, and I know that there are atheists who are calm, intelligent and rational. They would like to discuss the subjects. I know you're out there. I implore you, please think about what the Bible says and ask God to speak to your heart and show you that he's real. You may not have tomorrow, capice?

Mind you, this Weblog has been, and I intend it to remain, a multi-purpose thing. It's not all about you, it's about what I want to put on the screen to inform and entertain. And I'm going to move on to other things because these atheists are boring and predictable. That's the first reality I'm presenting that you have to deal with.

OK, now I'm going to proceed with my thoughts and observations.

"Yeah, do it, Loser! You Xtians are all big dumb stupidheads! Yer just gonna look stoopid again"

Thank you for bringing me to my first point: Although they claim to love logic, they ignore it. There are numerous logical fallacies I've seen and experienced with them, but I don't want to take the time to cover them all. Addendum: Look for the "Logic Lessons" links on this site.
  • Instead of discussions, they resort to ad hominem attacks. I have had personal attacks here, my Western Values Weblog and in other areas. Instead of sticking to the point, they attack me. I suspect that they have two goals: First, to simply be vicious (sick minds get their kicks that way). Second, to try to neutralize me by making others hate me, or to make me clam up and go away. Bad idea. Won't happen.
  • Using the "so are you" fallacy, tu quoque. Here's a news flash: Christians do not have a monopoly on being hypocrites. When their own hypocrisy is pointed out, they go bananas. Denial, deflection, ignoring and whatever else it takes is activated to dodge the issue.
  • They commonly use something similar to "false dilemma", the "either/or" fallacy. I am uncertain if I have the correct example or if I should have found a more accurate name for this, but I have been confronted with stupid questions that I have ignored. Since I did not respond to their childish "I want an answer now" demand, it was assumed that my silence was an admission of guilt, or error. No, my silence is an admission of not wanting to waste my time, Buttercup.
  • Appeal to ridicule. "You believe in magic", or, "It makes as much sense as believing in the flying spaghetti monster", or, "The Bible is just a bunch of fairy tales". The first one is absurd, nobody is saying anything about magic except you, the second is a clear example of this fallacy, the third is an insult based on extreme ignorance.
  • Poisoning the well. The ad hominem attacks are used to say that Christians are stupid, ignorant, liars, hypocrites, etc. That is just a lame excuse to avoid issues. "He's a Christian, and they're all wrong, etc.", or, "This one is a false Christian, a liar and a hypocrite", to negate what is being said, is just another way to dodge the issue.
  • Declaring something makes it true. "Religion is fairy tales. Despite this obvious truth..."
  • I have seen some wild stuff, and they even combine fallacies. Aside from being full of venom, they will combine the straw man fallacy with sweeping generalizations (like my earlier example, "You xtians are all...") and wind up babbling into incoherence.
  • Smokescreens, dodging the question, sweeping generalizations, appealing to popularity and more are easily found.
By the way, I wanted to borrow Matt Slick's term about atheist thought, "stupidificaction", for my title. Maybe I should have. "Stupidificaction — The Next Generation".

These atheists are full of hate and rage. Want an intelligent conversation? When it comes to the majority, fuggedaboudit. I cannot reprint the hate mail I have received on my comments, nor the hateful diatribes that have been sent to me and to other Christians in forums because they are obscene, illogical and full of profanities. Again, they often ignore the subject at hand, or take it to laughable extremes.

Atheists of today are cowards. It's easy to say things online that you wouldn't have the guts to say to someone in person. Add to it that they are using fake names, "unpublished" profiles at, very few will give even an e-mail address, and you get the idea. I have given many links for further resources if someone really wants to get more information, but those have received very, very few clicks. Hey, why not call the CARM radio show and debate Matt live on the air? He's waiting for you, but you have to call during Mountain Time. Click here for more information if you're not just talk and no action.

By the way, why do you troll Christians most of all? Perhaps, deep inside, you know that we have the truth? You're following the will of your father (John 8.44). I don't see atheists giving a hard time to New Agers, followers of astrology, UFO enthusiasts, Buddhists (atheists would have a field day on the doctrines of karma and reincarnation) and so forth. Obviously, you're terrified of picking on Muslims and Satanists (although atheists would fit in with LaVey Satanism, which promotes self above all else); Jews and real Christians don't perform ritual killings or murder thousands of innocent people, so maybe that's another reason we're your targets. Huh, seems that I can think of atheists that have murdered millions of people. I'll hit you with that again later.

Hateful atheists are unbalanced. I'm going to make an exception and give an edited version of one of my love letters: "Hey there pig f**ker. I know you won't let this post through, but I want you to read it. Because I want you to know that I'm not gonna let up on you. You can run from blog to blog, but every time you post, I'll find you and call you out on your hypocritical bulls**t. So start running tough guy."

Here's another one, but edited more: "I see you're already blocking comments on your posts. That' okay. I'll just copy your nonsense and paste it on another site. [Joke's on them, I'm skipping most of their comments.] This is gonna be fun. I'll hand you your false convert ass every day, until you can't take it anymore. But don't go blowing anyone up on my account. Actually you're like the gay parent on the South Park "High School Musical" episode. The one who threatened to slap everyone. Hmmmm... Are you a self-loathing gay as well?"

Yeah, I'm shaking, Bubbles.

  • These cowards throw stones at a distance, but have nothing of substance to offer. This makes me wonder, though, how useful they are in real life. One cafone listed a hobby as "messing with Christians", or something similar. Wow, that's fulfilling. Someone so hateful, so spiteful, that they have to "follow you around" cannot be playing with a full deck. Well, maybe a full deck of jokers.
  • I read book reviews at Amazon about evidence for Intelligent Design. Atheists slam the book as being ridiculous, they presume to be smarter than the author (even if he is a qualified molecular biologist), etc. Attack, attack, attack. But they look like petty fools.
  • Also, I saw some comments about Christian rock bands: "There's no such thing as God, you're all idiots", and similar.
  • There was a forum in which I used to participate, and the militant atheists would start complaining that there were "too many Christians in here, wish they'd get their own forum". Replies included, "I just slap them down when they get out of line". I shot this one with his own gun, saying that if he felt that way, why not go to an atheist-only forum? As expected, the excrement struck the bladed cooling device.
  • Somehow, they simply think it's cool to ridicule our beliefs. What else do you ridicule? They take their Unhelpful Pills before going online, yes?
This atheistic trolling online is nothing less than their anti-faith jihad! People need to get lives. That includes growing up and coming out of their parents' basements. Also, if I get angry and strike back at every petty insult, that causes me to act in a manner unpleasing to God after a while, and I don't want to sink as low as they are.

Internet atheists are full of pride and arrogance. They claim to be "bright", "free thinkers", "enlightened" and so on, plus have astonishingly arrogant forums like, "We are so freakin' smart because we disbelieve". Tell me, O Wise Ones, how does choosing to disbelieve make you so clever? If you were truly clever, you wouldn't be trolling and trying to destroy the faith of believers. Also, if you were truly intelligent, you would consider evidence and arguments that Christians present, or visit Websites of apologetics, instead of squirming and dodging.

Atheists do not admit that they, too, have faith. In their case, most of that faith is in evolutionism despite contrary evidence, and the huge lack of evidence. After all, Papa Darwin's theory is a convenient excuse to account for the existence of an astonishingly complex universe. Also, they insist that "there is no God", an act of faith itself. If you call them on this one, there is tremendous wailing and gnashing of teeth.

OK, gang, this is enough for one day. (Ha! "One day". This was days in the planning and writing.) Part 2 can be found here.

May 7, 2015

National Day of Unreason

"Humanists" (generally atheists) are making a rude gesture to Christians by having their so-called "National Day of Reason", fallaciously pretending that being an atheist makes you "reasonable", and being a Christian makes you unable to reason, on the same day as the American "National Day of Prayer". Of course, they already have their holiday, it's April 1, but I reckon they chose that day simply to be obstreperous.

For the National Day of Prayer, atheists and "Humanists" want a "National Day of Reason". However, they show precious little ability to show reason, or tolerance.

Atheists are getting more obnoxious all the time. Matt Slick of CARM was going to be involved in the National Day of Prayer on the Utah Capitol steps, but the atheists had already reserved that space. On April 27, 2015, Matt issued a debate challenge to the Idaho Humanist Association

To demonstrate that Idaho Humanists are confident, respectful, and rational, he was answered with a stampede of logical fallacies and outright libel. Christians get that a lot, especially when we can point out how those who claim to embrace "reason" are so unskilled at using it, and are driven by emotion instead of logic; they hate it when we out-reason them. You can listen to Matt's commentary at the beginning of these radio shows (free MP3 downloads), April 29 and April 30. EDIT 1: May 4 has some comments from the 15:15 mark through 24:45.

Speaking of libel, I had been advised to point out and refute blatant defamation by a furious bundle of incoherent apostate hatred, stalker troll tinhorn Ashley Haworth-Roberts. In other posts and articles, I have shown how "Haywire" is incoherent and illogical. Since a Christian Weblog was allowing misotheists to be recalcitrant and turn the thing into their own litterbox, personal attacks were left standing. I had to deal with something, and took screenshots of these things in case they are deleted from the Weblog in question (it had a good article), which would be smart because they are supporting libel and defamation by letting them stand. I added color to his remarks that does not appear in the originals.
ashleyhr said... I see that the fraud and coward Sorensen is falsely libelling me a 'bully' ('misotheist bully') behind my back on one of his blogs that he probably hoped I would not read: He loses the argument and exposes his anti-science bias and intellectual bankruptcy whenever we directly interact - so runs away, sulks, and then libels me on his blog where NO comments are permitted. May 4, 2015 at 1:27 PM (Comment now removed)
Below is my response to him (the first part is dealing with "Thomas Jefferson", a sidewinder who acted in a typical libelous atheopathic manner, and I did not bother to respond to his later defamation). Here is what I posted on May 5, 2015 (Comment now removedDespite claims that dark matter has been "found" in the universe, there is actually no direct observational evidence. In fact, dark matter is a conjecture based entirely on bad logic and naturalistic assumptions.):
I've thought long and hard about replying.

This is ridiculous. The Admin(s) tell people to act in a civil manner or their comments will be removed. What happens? Atheopaths turn it into a litter box, with no consequences. If you're going to be a party to allowing assertions, you could at least require evidence.

One resorts to logical fallacies, and when I point them out, he gets uppity and decides I'm not worthy of his attention, but cannot answer my challenges to his bad "reasoning".

The stalker attention whore (a bitter apostate who cannot string two logical thoughts together), meanwhile, continues to bring in irrelevant personal attacks, terrible logic, off-topic remarks, outside links, and more.

Since I've been called a liar by this liar, I'm going to address his latest attack. It would be fair to let this comment stand, since his multitudinous nonsense has been left untouched. Looks like he got kicked off that Forum of Futility and Hatred again (there was a complain that they're "bored rigid"), so he's bringing his garbage here.

"I see that the fraud and coward Sorensen"

Defamation. Look up ad hominem.

"is falsely libelling me a 'bully' ('misotheist bully') behind my back on one of his blogs that he probably hoped I would not read:"

No, he's a stalker and reads my material almost every day. This is pretty much an appeal to motive fallacy, but he has no basis for his irrational claim that I "probably hoped" he would not read my Weblog. It is also further defamation, since there is no evidence provided that whatever remarks was made was about him. Everything is not about him, in case he did not know.

"He loses the argument"

Not true.

"and exposes his anti-science bias"

This is another defamatory lie, and a manipulation using conflation. He frequently pulls this stunt, and I have made it clear that I am in no wise anti-science (an amazingly vapid claim conflating "evolution" with "science", a sneaky bait 'n' switch from fundamentalist evolutionists).

"and intellectual bankruptcy"

Another ad hominem. How do I fallacy thee? Let me count the ways. But mostly personal attacks. I have repeatedly documented his failings in reasoning and morality.

"whenever we directly interact - so runs away, sulks, and then libels me on his blog where NO comments are permitted."

He does not even know what libel means. Whenever I show his failings, it's "Libel!" For that matter, biblical creationists are "liars", as you have seen here. Sweeping generalizations, and an apparent inability to understand the difference between expressing contrary interpretations of evidence and a demonstrated willingness to deceive.

As for the last lie, "on his blog where NO comments are permitted", first, he needs to demonstrate libel (I have shown repeatedly how he libels me, and he brags about his libels spamming.) No comments allowed? One time, he accused me of switching off the comments on Piltdown Superman because of him. Ego much? The truth is, that weblog never allowed comments for various reasons.

The one the liar was crying about, however, does allow comments. So does Stormbringer's Thunder, my original Weblog (see here).

Thanks for letting me set the record straight on a few things. If you want more documentation, go to Piltdown Superman and do a search for "haywire".

Unfortunately, since the inmates run the asylum here, I can no longer in good conscience promote this Weblog. I'm done here.
Harsh? Yes. Necessary? Absolutely, both legally and to show that Christians do not have to be Wimps for Jesus (look for Challenge-riposte paradigm here). I've dealt with harassment from this stalker for a long time. I won't show you the things he says about God, but it seems he can't make up his mind whether or not he's an atheist or agnostic.

So, what did I gain by proving that he is illogical and a liar?

ashleyhr said...

The fraud Sorensen is asking yet again for blatant censorship. 

The man is an evil hypocrite (or mentally challenged).

Sorensen - YOU are the liar. I have shown this many many times. Even in these threads - which you demand be censored

I am not and you CANNOT prove that I am.

His latest cowardly attack against me was not posted on his daily blog but an obscure one that few people know about. The link in question WAS about me Liar Bob.

If I commented at your propaganda page that I linked to you would INSTANTLY delete the comment. You are an extremist who wants anti-creationists silenced from the web. So you can pretend that you 'won' an argument. 

The rest of your reply is just pseudo-intellectual waffle. 

Are you still saying 'Lucy' will be 'shelved'? In your dreams. 

The Lake of Fire beckons Liar Bob.

Jason - I have more respect for you than for this arrogant dishonest bigot for Jesus who is utterly unteachable.
May 5, 2015 at 8:12 PM (Comment now removed)
Yep, further libel (this is supposed to be the comment link, but it's not working for me). (Professing atheists, agnostics, and evolutionists cannot account for morality). Not worth saddling up to deal with, he knows he's just blowing smoke. I believe he is not only insane, but is a demoniac. EDIT 2: I uploaded some screenshots documenting his misrepresentation, libel, disunderstanding of simple logic, hatred, and more, here. I really think he can't learn logic. Also, I said it looked like he had been kicked off that forum. Nope. Still playing the victim and continuing to libel. Here he is again, and most of Hitler's text are quotes from Haywire, and you can search here for the comments you'll see:

The example at the top with Matt Slick's dealings with a "Humanist", and my libelous harassment from a stalker (which is criminal activity, by the way, so he's in trouble for that as well as defamation) are typical examples of how "tolerant" and "rational" many atheists can be. 

These atheo-fascists are angry and bitter, and Their Father Down Below knows that time is running out, so he's pulling their strings even more. Also, they are upset because Christians are better equipped to use logic than they are, and the scientific evidence supports special Creation, refuting evolution. They need to repent while there's still time, else they're lost forever. Secularists will not have the final victory, that belongs to God.

May 24, 2010

Why I Cannot Trust Atheists Part 2

Welcome to the exciting conclusion! I strongly recommend that you read Part 1 here before reading this. Just don't be like those who are afraid of the truth, and only spend about a minute there.

I have to start this section with an admission of error. When I said that the atheists that I knew when I was younger were more "live and let live", that was mostly true. However, I must not have circulated in the right circles, because arrogant militant atheism has been around for quite a long time. My perceptions were incomplete.

Part of the difference is the Internet. In my last installment, I said that today's atheists are cowards because they can hide their obnoxious selves behind anonymity, and say things online that they would not have the guts to say in person. That is probably what I dealt with in the past, that those atheists most showed some amount of civility and did not try to cram their anti-religion down my throat.

Oh, that's right. Atheists deny that they have a religion. It's a belief system and involves denial of a superior being, the supernatural, a soul, the afterlife, and so forth. Yet there is a kind of situational ethics and something that passes as a moral standard. It is a worldview. That's a religion you have there, Blossom. By the way, one of the high priests of atheism, Richard "Daffy" Dawkins, is afraid of a debate with Ray Comfort.

I've learned long ago that no matter what you say or do, some people will think evil of you. Some will say that my thoughts, experiences, observations and so forth are wrong, or even outright lies. Comments have already started between posting the first part of this article and the sequel here. Let them hate and continue to deliberately misunderstand, and deny all evidence that opposes their religion. It's almost funny that atheists accuse Christians of lying to get people to believe in "their" God. Although I'm sure that some individuals might lie to cover their egos, to lie on a grand scale or as an organized effort is absurd on the face of it. Yeah, right, I'm going to plan to lie to get you to believe in a holy and righteous God who disapproves of such things. Spare me.

OK, back to the lesson.

Atheists do not have to deal with persecution. Oh, sure, some of them like to claim that they are persecuted, but that has nothing to do with reality. In America, they've never had to fear for their lives, or endure "convert or die" situations. In fact, I think they're free in most of the world to disbelieve all they want. Even atheists cannot deny that Christians have been viciously persecuted through the centuries. I'll spare you descriptions of what has happened, this is a family show. By the way, a significant part of the persecution of Christians and Jews has happened at the hands of atheists. Can someone remind me of how many millions have died at the hands of those atheistic communists? Addendum: Here is a brief discussion of atheist hypocrisy on that subject.

Sometimes they've actually cried about persecution when I've set them up and caught them in their own foolishness in comments areas and forums. Hey, did you actually climb the basement stairs and have Mommie kiss the boo-boo?

What good are you? While the Christians have been sending missionaries to the rest of the world, building homes, and church groups are providing disaster relief for tsunamis, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes and so on, plus Christians are setting up charities, what do you atheists do? Congratulate each other on being so smart because you disbelieve, set up yet another rant site and then troll the Christians that are living up to their convictions. Yes, atheists are a definite plus for society.

Atheists set up impossible standards.
  • They do not understand God and Christianity, but know just enough to make demands on how they think Christians should act, or how God should act. I Cor. 2.14
  • Expecting Christians to be morally perfect in their eyes (I Cor. 2.12); any real or imagined flaw is seen as an excuse to say, "You xtians are hypocrites, liars and fools! Neener neener neener!" Well, you lot do sound that way.
  • Demanding that Christians know their Bibles inside out, as well as being thoroughly schooled in all of the world's philosophies that atheists like. Naturally, since everyone cannot answer every question, they assume, therefore, that we know nothing and dismiss us as being ignorant. Guess what? We're still learning! Everyone is still learning, so why can't we? I never claimed to have all the answers, and I do not know anyone who does make that claim. However, I do know some things, and I have links available to others who have more answers.
  • With very few exceptions, atheists are not wrong in their own eyes, and Christians are almost never right. Especially if they have taken a personal dislike to someone, then nothing they say will ever be right in atheists' eyes. Ray Comfort is constantly insulted in his intelligence and integrity, and I do not see atheists saying, "You have a good point, Ray". The same kind of thing happens to Dan at Debunking Atheists, too. Romans 1.16
One more area where atheists are right: Many Christians do not know their Bibles very well. While it is irrational and unreasonable to demand that all believers know it inside out, as I have stated, too many Christians have not read it. They claim to believe the Bible, but get cornered easily when questioned. That is because there are apostate churches acting like religious social clubs and do not teach Biblical truth and equip their people as to what and why they believe.

Atheists are dishonest. That's right, I said it! In one Weblog, an atheist asked "an honest question". It turned out that this "honest question" was a set-up. I found them in their lair, laughing about it. I was rather disappointed because I gave a heartfelt response and it was ridiculed. Naturally, I lashed out and called this cafone on it. When I shared my experience with Matt Slick of CARM on his national radio show, he told me that he only knows a few atheists that will not deliberately lie to him. Also, he told me of tricks that they play and how vicious they can get. Matt told me flat out, "Don't trust atheists".

I will tell you this: Any seeker of truth that seems to be honest, I will give honest answers. But only for a short time. I have believed this thing, and Matt agrees: Spend only a little time with atheists. If we feel that we're being played, we move on.

Atheists want God to act in a way that THEY require. That is, they think that they can understand the Creator of the universe (if they want to admit that he may exist, for the sake of argument) in human terms. Then, they rail against him, "I don't want to believe in a God like that..." Tough rocks, Rowena. You can choose to disbelieve all you want, but it will not change reality. If you take it from God's point of view, try to understand what knowledgeable Christians say (and I've provided links many times to help you out), perhaps you can gain a new perspective instead of throwing a tantrum.

Another of their tantrum-demands is, "If God is real, why doesn't he show himself in such and so way?" Because you do not understand anything about God. He doesn't have to cave in to your demands. Isaiah 40.13 NIV

I remember a story that I read years ago. A fellow was giving an open-air lecture and saying, "God, you're not real. If you're real, strike me down now!" Nothing happened, and he claimed victory (I've already talked about that fallacy of logic). Someone else took the platform and said that he was accosted by a young boy, dirty and ragged. He demanded that the man fight him. Of course, the man could have knocked seven ways 'till sundown, but he kept on going. The kid shouted that he had won. The same situation for the man demanding that God strike him dead, and the other man having to deal with the angry child. Neither thing was worth the effort, and in both cases, it was an act of compassion to not rise to the challenge.

Some people I have known have chosen against belief in God because they wanted him to be a cosmic sugar daddy. "I prayed, and didn't get what I wanted", or, "My goldfish died" or similar. You do not understand, and make no effort to try to understand.

Perhaps you've experienced hurt in your life, or had dealings with false Christians that have hurt you. It has happened to me. That is not a good enough reason to reject absolutely everything, including the existence of God. Jesus knows what it's like to be hurt and betrayed.

Atheists have no sense of humor. Well, if they make the joke, it's fine. Especially if it mockery and ridicule of God or Christians. But if Christians make a joke, stand back, it's crying time. I posted a link to this cartoon, and some clown accused me of being sick because I found torture to be amusing. Well, not only does the character in the cartoon seem unperturbed, but it's a doggone cartoon! Also, he was being disingenuous because he does not believe in God, Satan, Hell, Judgment, Heaven. Use logic much?

I have to admit to taking joy in baiting them. I put out comments and they jumped all over them. When the comments were snarky or jokes, they chose to take them seriously. (I claimed victory, because they fell into my trap and showed their true colors.) Then they demanded that I show respect to the unrespectable!

Addendum: Screaming like scalded cats when I gave them a payback: I faked a couple of "responses"from the main trolls here in the comment section, left them for a couple of days and took them down. Helps prove two of my points: They can't take a joke, and if they had lives that extended beyond trolling, they wouldn't have been pranked. Their double standards are amazing.

They have nothing to offer. I told one bunch that my mother died of a malignant glioma, that my father had Alzheimer's and Dementia and did not even know me (or even himself) when he died fifteen months ago, that my brother had Down Syndrome and had the mentality of a small child died seventeen months ago. We will all be together again. My mother is now free of pain, my father knows who he is, my brother is now perfect. What do atheists have to offer? Just as I thought. Nothing.

I am satisfied that the Bible is true. This comes not only through faith (a concept that atheists woefully misunderstand), but I am satisfied in my intellect as well.

Atheist morality is situational. I've read some discussions that it is based on society. Well, society changes. For that matter, Roman society thought it was cool to kill Christians, so they were "moral". Ancient Greek society thought it was a status symbol to have a homosexual lover in addition to a spouse. This included pedophilia. So, what if that comes back? You may think NAMBLA is a bad thing now, but society's "morals" may change to the point where that perversion is accepted. Don't get me wrong, I know some very moral atheists; some act more "Christian" than some alleged Christians I know! For a while. As Christians, we have an anchor of morality in the Bible, and it's worked for Western society for quite a long time. Isaiah 40.8

I am amazed at how atheists think that, by virtue of their disbelief, they are morally superior to Christians. As I mentioned before, the clown that doesn't want to believe in a "God like that", he elevates himself above millions of believers. Amazingly uppity, he thinks he's better than us, and it's all based on his misunderstanding!

Arrogance, vileness, trolling, lack of logic, obstreperousness, showing no respect to others — and you people wonder why I don't respect you?

"Why are you doing this in the first place, Cowboy Bob?"
  • Frankly, some of it was motivated by anger at first, and I wanted to show arrogant atheists just who and what they are. The way they act, I'm surprised that intelligent atheists want to even be associated with the loser trolls.
  • I want to clue in Christians how modern atheists act. Be wary, and do not waste much time because it is perverse sport to attack Christians. Remember, when (not if) you are persecuted because of Jesus, I Cor. 4.12, I Cor. 15.9, II Cor. 12.10, John 16.2, Matt. 5.11 and 1 Peter 4.14. Capice?
  • To show you atheists that you are not fooling people.
  • Some of us are going to speak up about atheistic nonsense.
  • To shock you into thinking instead of just reacting and trolling; you worship logic so much, how about using it? But then, you would see that we have reasons for believing in God and the Bible.
  • Speaking of reason, try Isaiah 1.18 KJV and Acts 17.11.
  • You don't have to shut off your brain to be a believer. Some of the most brilliant people throughout history have been believers. No, I won't list them. Do your own homework! Oh, what the heck, here's one list for you.
If you're reading this, there is still time. Although your habit is to deny the existence of God, your spirit, faith, the validity of the Bible, Judgment, Hell, Heaven, the existence of Satan and so forth, try listening to your heart and asking God to make himself real to you through faith as well as reason and logic. Yes, faith exists. Denying the existence of anything does not make it less real. There are many evidences and apologetics links here, as well as evangelistic links if you decide to get right with God.

"Why the sense of urgency?"

Two reasons. One I have indicated, that you may not be here tomorrow and will have to face eternity; no second chance. Another reason is that atheists are getting worse. The more they insult God and spit in his face, the more they become reprobate and hard-hearted. Eventually, there will be no way to reach them because God will let them do their own thing ("gave them over"). Romans 1.18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 28.

What, you're waiting to talk with your friends? Or afraid of losing their approval? Any friend that wants you to fail and spend eternity in Hell with them is no friend at all. Now is the time! Imagine... experiencing the love of the God that you thought did not even exist. God is there, whether it's Leetsdale, Mountain View, Oil City, Phoenix, Minneapolis, Wellington, Melbourne, London or anywhere else. You wouldn't be the first atheist that became converted, and you certainly won't be the last. Hey, do you want to really be a rebel, to have a purpose in life? Give you life to Jesus and stand for something — stand for him!

Tweaked June 21, 2010

June 22, 2012

Atheist Justifications for Bad Behavior

It should no longer amaze me when atheists act irrationally, but it does. They proclaim "reason" as if they had exclusive rights to it. In fact, I have seen precious little in the way of reasoning processes from atheists. (I suspect that more civil atheists are uninterested in trolling, and are embarrassed by the Internet trolls.) They commit multiple logical fallacies, and then justify their bad logic with more of it — I have lost count of the number of times I have experienced this online.

So many modern atheists use the fallacies and attempt to manipulate emotions to control the flow of conversations. (I recently trapped some particularly vituperative atheists by saying that they are incapable of rational discourse. When one with an obscene name attempted to dictate the terms of the conversation, I declined to go along with it. S/he reacted with railings, accusations and so forth, and others joined in. (Part of it was resentment at being caught in my trap and trying to put it back on me, other parts were just simple railing. I like being proved right.) So many hate following rules, and whine about being unable to say anything anytime or they whine about "censorship", cowardice or some use other attempt to manipulate.

These modern atheists seek to justify their bad behavior. One loathsome misotheist, when asked why he persecutes Christians, responded with:
It is often asked, usually by my Christian family members, why I am so bent on attacking Christianity? Why don't I attack Buddhism with the same zeal?

Well, Buddhists aren't, en mass, currently trying to restrict the rights of my homosexual friends to get married and be happy. My Buddhist friends aren't trying to dictate whether or woman can have an abortion or not and dictate what she can or cannot do with her own body. Buddhists aren't trying to control education policies by supplanting historical and scientific facts for their ancient myths.

But that's just one of my reasons for speaking out against Christianity. My other reason is more subtle. I want to educate Christians, because the truth of the matter is, many Christians don't seem to know all that much about Christianity. Granted, it might be unfair of me to expect over two billion people to have access to higher learning, and I feel much of the things which religious historians have understood for the past 300 years should be made more common knowledge to the general public, perhaps Christians most of all. But there is no reason we shouldn't have the right to correct a Christian when they are wrong about some straight forward fact. [1]
Note the noble victim tone, as well as the contradictions and absence of reason. Not only is he outright lying ("...en mass, currently trying to restrict the rights of my homosexual friends to get married and be happy"), but that statement appeals to emotion, has a straw man fallacy and uses a sweeping generality. Then, he contradicts himself by pretending that he is trying to do Christians a favor by "correcting" us. This is astonishingly arrogant. He knows more than all of the Christians? (Perhaps he knows more things about the Bible and Christianity than some Christians; that is a problem that some of us are attempting to correct.) But such a broad, narcissistic statement is laughable.

The whole thing is very transparent, and I suspect the better answer for why he persecutes Christians is that he simply wants a plausible-sounding excuse for acting like an angry schoolyard bully that was spanked for stealing a banana from the teacher's desk.

One of the most vile things I have read from an atheist unfortunately does not have documentation. You'll just have to take my word for it. (Naturally, atheopaths are going to accuse me of lying, but that's their nature, innit?) When Ray Comfort's Weblog was called "Atheist Central", I brought up the fact that atheists have been persecuting, torturing and murdering Christians in atheist-controlled countries for decades. Someone responded that "they deserved it"! Why did they "deserve it"? Because of what the Catholic church did in previous centuries. This is "reason" in action, folks.

What follows next is alarming. An atheist kept pestering me about my beliefs on the age of the Earth. I asked why it mattered to him what I believe about it. Here is his response:

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Restrain your equines, Pilgrim!

When we correctly point out that the greatest mass murderers in history have been atheists like Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Lenin and others, the response is the "no true atheist" fallacy [2]; the atheism of Stalin et al have nothing to do with their actions! First, that load of garbage that doesn't fool anyone. And yet, this atheo-fascist member of the Thought Police was worried that my beliefs affect my actions, and may motivate me to act in a way that is unacceptable to him. What an amazingly blatant display of double standards. A bit Stalinesque, I think. [3]

Bottom lines:Your worldview does affect your actions. Atheism is logically and philosophically self-refuting, tragically lacking in reason as well as substance. Manipulative control freaks are disgusting. People can attempt to justify acting arrogantly, but they are not fooling anyone.

They're worse after they've been drinking. That's a wrap on the rant. Be sure to catch the videos that follow (the longest is only about eight minutes long):

April 17, 2011

Atheist Standards of Morality - Part 3 and a Challenge

Buon giorno. After this article, I'm changing the subject for a while.

I have a challenge for the intelligent, civil atheists. But I have other things to say first because I have to set this up with examples, capice? 

Last time, I provided an audio clip where several problems with Internet atheists were discussed. Some of this problem is of a spiritual nature. On the call that I present below to "Faith and Reason" "Carm Radio" (Matt Slick of CARM), I inadvertently set Matt off a bit. I know he was not exasperated with me personally, but rather, with the concepts that I was bringing forward. In my discussions with many people online, we have seen that the majority of Internet atheists are angry, hateful, dishonest and manipulative. Too bad they lost interest in their Korgi Cards so rapidly, and then wander off to bother other people...

Recently, I had another writer of a Christian Weblog send me a message. He noted that the atheists at Ray Comfort's "Atheist Central" were even more vicious than usual. (One reason that I do not spend much time there anymore is that their moderation is inconsistent. They allow ad hominem attacks despite their posted policies. That makes it almost impossible to have a decent conversation. So, I get them angry in my attempts to shock them into thinking. I fail.) Some cafones are so desperate to hate, so petty, that they will come up with any excuse, no matter how flimsy.

"Yeah, we know, Cowboy Bob. You hate atheists and think we're all bad people!"

Actually, I have had similar comments. When I get hit with misrepresentation and outright dishonesty, I withdraw from the conversation because the other party is either downright stupid or simply dishonest. Or both.

Addendum: One of my atheist trolls has an incomprehensible raving that seems to say that I am making this up, that what follows is a "gimmick". Denial is another aspect of schizophrenia.

There is a public "discussion" forum on Facebook that provided me with some screen shots of their behavior. It is allegedly for Christians and atheists to have discussions, but in reality, it's Christian bashing and trolling at its most typical (profanity warning):

This article has been heavily edited since the original post, links are now missing. Some people do not want the truth of their actions to be known.
I am humbled to be reading the words of such an intellectual and moral giant.

I could keep going, but this is irritating enough. If people actually want intelligent discussions, then show intelligence. Be rational and logical. Show some respect to those to whom you disagree. Personally, when someone starts in on me, I won't kowtow and try to live up to their concept of a "good Christian" when they are being bad atheists — Waitaminnit! There is no atheist standard of morality to make comparisons with! There is a Christian standard of morality (which atheists disunderstand and misrepresent for the sake of manipulation), but no standards of "measurement" for atheists!

Some basic, simple things that I want to have in a discussion, whether it's about religion, the nature of God, the nature of workplace décor, why the kids should be home at a certain hour, whatever: Listen to what I'm saying and hear where I'm coming from. Disagree later, and with some semblance of intelligence, without attacking and ridicule. It makes for a better discussion experience. When I demonstrate your folly, crying to your piranha friends does not help you learn, does not help me learn, does not help the process of discourse. However, it does make me laugh at your childishness.

Now that I've wasted this much time on obstreperous, recalcitrant Internet atheists, I have my aforementioned challenge to the mature, thoughtful, intelligent atheists. Are you ready? Start a "club", or a "guild". Get together and intellectualize the issues, flex your intellectual prowess, have a great time. But have courtesy rules, and "police your own". It would be nice to see this grow, as well. "The comments by this atheist fall short of the standards of the Atheist Guild and do not represent all of us". Do you think it is worth a try, or am I just being silly?

Anyway, here is Matt Slick telling me about wayward atheists, bad logic, manipulation and the need to follow rules. It runs just over ten minutes. (The original, unedited almost-hour-long version is here. I did not need to edit much of my content this time, and I believe I left his untouched.) We never did quite get my exact question answered, but I don't care, it was fun:

July 6, 2012

More On Conspiracy Theories and Emotional "Thinking"

This article will probably cost me some friends.

In the past couple of years, I feel like I have learned ten years worth of information. And quite a bit of it is people-related. Humans are an odd bunch, the more I learn about them, the more questions I have. Ken Ham's saying applies here:

Some people believe things by "thinking" with their emotions, and they cannot handle facts or people who dare to disagree with them. Case in point, this exchange with Hassan, an evolutionary misotheist who jumped into the middle of some comments on Facebook. I hope my students from "Logic Lessons" can spot the flaws. Pardon the goofy spacing, I got tired of fighting with Blogger's reformatting:
Evolution and selective breeding are 2 different things. Look at what they've done to the German Shepard in the last decade, they,ve changed it's line completely by shortening the back legs.

Yes. Selective breeding can be considered micro-evolution under intelligent design. And micro-evolution does occur in nature, within genetic limits.

Evolution is going on all the time: [Link posted.]

Yes, but nothing is changing into something else. The illustration shows the ambiguity of the terms. People see micro-evolution and assume macro-evolution is true on that basis, which is false. Similarly, "natural selection" has been used to mean evolution, but that is not hte case. [Illustration posted.]

It doesn't "change into something else". Dogs don't give birth to cats. Ah crap I give up. Yeah yeah, we just suddenly appeared with dinosaurs. The gospel according to Fred Flintstone.

So, you're going to be insulting and resort to straw man arguments? Good, it's best that you give up. Especially when science is working against you.

No, it's more like giving upon arguing with a schizophrenic who insists that the voices are real. You have no interest in real science and would rather believe that an invisible sky man always existed and one day out of all eternity he decided to create billions upon billions of galaxys with untold solar systems just so he could populate ours so his creations could worship him. And all the magic dude can come up with now is showing up as a bad image on burnt toast? No thanks, I'd rather believe in Odin and the Ice Giants, they make more sense than a 6,000 yr old planet.

Face it, you gave bad science and extrapolations. When called on your fallacies, you responded with abuse, ad hominems, more straw man fallacies, assertions... let me guess, you're a "thinker", right?

Here's a suggestion: Look at the articles linked on this page and see if you can show where the science behind them is flawed. Of course, saying, "They're wrong because they do not support my personal biases and presuppositions" does not count.

In another section, he wrote, yeah, it's much easier to believe in magic. Then he experienced the banhammer.

Plenty of flaws in logic, lots of emotion, no actual thought.

Then I had an encounter with Little Timmeh that happened while I was composing this article:
Hilarious! Time to grow up and accept reality.
And what scientific reasons to you have for childish ridicule?
The fact that science has mountains of accumulated evidence - you have childish stories. Your beliefs deserve all the ridicule they get.
I don't care about your illogical genetic fallacy and self-justifications for your childish ridicule. I want to know where you can find scientific errors in the post you are mocking. [I was in a hurry and forgot to specifically add that he is simply making assertions.]
Using grown up words doesn't excuse the fact you have a childish belief system. See ya later chuckles, I have better things to do with my being part of the real world.
This is part of the reason that the modern atheist movement is failing: They are obstreperous, recalcitrant, vituperative and lacking in the ability to reason. I doubt that they think that people will be swayed by their invective. Instead, I believe that they want to build up their egos by attacking other people.

So much for people who appear unable to think rationally. Moving on...

It seems that lately, I have been encountering some intelligent, well-reasoned people who inexplicably shut off their brains in order to believe the most ridiculous things without evidence. They are able to refute atheism with logic and on a philosophical basis, show fallacies in evolution, give sound theological and scientific reasons to believe what Scripture says about a young Earth, but they believe really goofy things. Especially conspiracy theories. When they believe that stuff, I think it taints their presentations of things that are true — and important.

The 9-11 "Truthers". There are variations, but they believe that the US Government intentionally killed over 3,000 of our own people in a "war for oil". This crap is very, very irritating to me because it is so mind-numbingly stupid! It has been disproved for years, and even without reading the refutations, a regular guy can realize the logistics of keeping so many people quiet for so long, and the nature of the human conscience — it's astonishing to me that anyone can believe that rubbish. And offensive because they are impugning the characters of many good people.

King James Onlyists. Again, there are variations on this belief, but these people reject valid textual analysis and scholarship to affirm that the King James Version is "the one true Bible". Some go as far as to say that all the other Bibles are "New Age", corrupted, Satanic and those of us who use them are either deceived or actively furthering the Devil's plans. This means that all of the people involved in translating the NASB, NIV, ESV, WEB, HCSB and even the New King James version, among others, are all evil wicked bad nasty people in Satan's service! The horrible a priori "logic" of comparing other versions to the KJV as the standard, and if the other versions differ, they are bad. Further, some KJV-Onlyists have actually lied to get people on their side. You people alarm me.
By the way, this is not about preference. If the King James Version is your Bible of choice, you like it best, fine, go for it.

Paulbots. This is a disparaging term for Ron Paul supporters. When I listen to a Paul supporter call a Conservative talk show, they preach like Obama zombies about how Ron Paul is going to save the world, how Romney is just as bad as B. Hussein Obama, deny anti-Semitic remarks and writings from Ron Paul, disparage Israel, bash George W. Bush — but do not offer anything of substance. In addition, they have their own conspiracy theories, such as "Ron Paul is actually winning, but people in power have already decided that Romney is going to be the candidate so votes and delegates are being hidden". Sure, Pal.

I know people who believe all of the above, and more, yet profess to be Bible-believing Christians. Amazingly, they act like angry atheists when promoting their views! That hurts their credibility.

It is indeed unfortunate that people will "think" (and vote!) with their emotions instead of their minds. Now, I know that emotions are a part of who we are. But we cannot let our feelings run the show for us.

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